Doctor Who [Classic] » Doctor Who – Who’s Talking: Patrick Troughton

Terry

Hello, I’m Terry Phillips and with me here is Doctor number two, Patrick Troughton. Patrick welcome.

Pat

Hello Terry, hello.

Terry

I suppose we should begin by dispelling a myth that you hate doing interviews. Is that true?

Pat

No, its not that I hate doing interviews. No, and it doesn’t worry me at all but, being a character actor, it’s a mistake for such an actor to promote their own personality too much. Because it’s counter-productive where their actual work is concerned. They’ve got to be a sort of nothing you see, and only come to life where the viewers are concerned as a person in a story. And I think that was the reason really. If you go on promoting yourself and so on it, the audience get to know you too much instead of the people that you’re trying to portray. Makes your job harder.

Terry

Well, we would like to get to know you a little bit better.

Pat

That’s very nice of you.

Terry

When, when you were doing Doctor Who there’d already been a previous one. Was the programme very popular at that time?

Pat

Yes it was. Now Billy had been doing it for three years by the time I was asked to do it. I think he was getting tired and I don’t think he was a particularly well man towards the end. He had sort of circulatory trouble or something like that. And I thought that perhaps the programme was beginning to be played out a bit. I thought that the joke was beginning to be over and I was astonished when they asked me to do it. And I thought oh dear no, you know, I mean, gosh, to re-create a character like that. It would probably only last about six weeks with me anyway and it’s not, just not worth doing.

Terry

And three years later?

Pat

Twenty three years later they stop that. Yes.

Terry

But three years after you took it on were you still astonished that, that the joke was still going on?

Pat

No, I don’t think so by then because it was. It had been very popular with me luckily. It was with Billy too. But it was a lovely part. I loved doing it and the family audience liked me very much in it and so I regretted leaving very much. But again it was – you can’t stay in one job forever. Being a character actor.

Terry

You pop in and out of a lot of places, often times unknown, especially unknown to American audiences. Do you like that? Do you like being, being hidden and yet being there?

Pat

Do you mean a lot of parts, or a lot of ..? Oh yes, oh yes. I love it. I love the variety. I’ve always done wildly different parts. I started in the sort of classical vein with the Bristol Old Vic. And then the Robert Donat Company in London, and at the Mercury Theatre doing T.S. Elliot plays and all that. And I got a very good grounding in all that sort of thing. But then I got into television which was the very early days 1948 when it was all live you know. Terror. And I got a chance there of playing every sort of part under the sun. Goodies, baddies, costume, modern, everything. And it was a small audience. About 300000 in those days. Only in London. Look at it now. And the directors tended to use you a lot because once an actor had done television they’d. They knew the ropes to a certain extent and a director could, was, could rest easy in his mind that at least they’d done it and they knew roughly what was going to happen. They didn’t have to tutor somebody else in the new medium which was completely new. It was a cross between the theatre and film in a way which had never really been attempted before. And it, you know, you needed to do it in order to get relaxed in it. Not that one ever was relaxed in live television. I don’t ever remember being relaxed in live television really. Not in fifteen years of that.

Terry

Do you miss the live aspect of it?

Pat

No, no way, no, no. No, it was a bit amateur really because, you know, you get a camera in, you get a boom in, actors dry up and have to cut and then the vision mixer goes crazy upstairs because you didn’t know where he is, you know. No it was a bit hit or miss, after all it’s a, it’s a professional job and you’ve got to produce a professional article and so although, although those days were wonderful fun, one was younger one could cope with it all, it was a little bit hit or miss. But there was some tremendous stuff because, as you know the adrenaline flows quite considerably when you’re doing it like that.

Terry

What about the stage? You say you got your beginnings on the classic stage.

Pat

Yes well I had a long history of being a character actor playing every sort of part you could possibly imagine. Swashbuckling heroes, lots of Dickens. Oh, things like the dwarf Quilp in the Old Curiosity Shoppe which was a big success, I’m glad to say. And a part I look back on with great love and excitement. That sort of thing and wild comedy and baddies I used to play. So I had a long experience of playing every sort of part. And this, as it turned out, was an opportunity to exercise the lighter side, the more mischievous side of my nature, which I grabbed with both hands. To begin with I was thinking of playing him rather serious and tough, you know. It was very difficult you see, following Billy, it had never been done before. The whole concept of the Doctor going on was totally new and one, nobody knew whether the audience would accept that at all. I mean, it was quite a new idea and so it was, one was jumping in at the deep end and although one had carte blanche you could do whatever you like with it there had to be continuity. He had to be other worldly. He comes from another planet, this was the most important thing and so to begin with I had all sorts of ideas like playing a tough sea captain sort of thing like some of the parts I used to play. Or then I thought well when this is all over I’ll have to go back to being, playing parts in television again and people will know me as Doctor Who so what I’ll do is black up and put a turban on and big earrings and play it like Conrad Vight and that sort of thing. Then when I took it all off nobody would know, you know, hopefully. But they stamped on that the powers that be, they thought very bad idea. And then there was this lovely idea of Sidney Newman’s to play him very light, like a sort of Chaplinesque sort of character. Although I hasten to add without the skill of Mr. Chaplin. He was such a genius of a mime. But that’s what Sidney Newman had in mind, kept on egging me on to do strange sort of wonderful things in the way of mime which of course I was incapable of doing really so I tried to do it all up there in my head. And it was a wonderful relief to play a sort of saucy part, you know, a bit of a bungler, a bit of a wassee you know, don’t know whether he’s bungling or not, or whether he’s got his tongue in his cheek. But he’s got a real twinkle in his eye.

It was a lovely part to live with for three years because it was a happy part and so one was happy. You can’t avoid, you know, it rubbing off when you go home a bit. And I had this young family, and that’s lovely too, that kept me in touch with my audience which although it was a family show, it was. Well, fifty percent kids and having kids of sort of what five, seven and nine it was, it kept me in touch with the sort of thing that the audience wanted. Which was nice.

Terry

What about your advice to people who want to go into the acting business. I mean would you advise it to your children?

Pat

Yes I did. Well they wanted to and I had a feeling they’d be good but when I did it my Dad thought it would be a good idea if I got my A levels first. You have O levels and A levels in my country

Terry

In school?

Pat

Yeah, in school and the A levels are sort of the entry exams for university and so he thought that would be a good idea to have that behind me in case I was no good, you know. And so I did that and when both the boys wanted to do it I said, well you know, get you’re A levels first and then if it doesn’t work out for you, you’ve got something to fall back on. You’ve got some sort of qualifications.

Terry

So you’ve two sons

Pat

Which they did, yes. Well, I’ve got more than two sons but these are the acting ones, David who you saw in Doctor Who as King Peladon, and Michael who hasn’t been in Doctor Who I don’t think. Hint, hint.

Terry

Now lets see, you were in the Three Doctors

Pat

Yes

Terry

And you were in the Five Doctors

Pat

Yes

Terry

Will there be a Six Doctors that you’ll return to again. Can you imagine doing that?

Pat

Oh I hope there’s going to be an eight and nine Doctors with any luck. I should think so, I mean new kids are being born all the time aren’t there? So there’s no reason why it shouldn’t go on forever. Really.

Terry

So you’re looking forward to doing more?

Pat

Oh yes. But not too often. I love doing it for the benefit of the American fans. Because not working over here as a general matter of course, you know, it doesn’t type me, you see. And it doesn’t inhibit what I, what other parts I’ll play over here. But over back in England it’s a mistake for any character actor to become associated too much with one part obviously otherwise, you know, you’re stymied aren’t you?

Terry

Who was you’re favourite monster?

Pat

Well yes, well my favourite monster, you don’t have a favourite monster really because they’re all very scary you see. I acted scared for about three years and in the end I was really scared myself. I think its very important to be scared of the monsters and I think any, the only criticism one can level at any Doctor Who, and I’m not thinking of anyone in particular, is that if they’re not scared, genuinely scared of the monster or the menace then you might as well pack up because you know you take away all, the whole sort of point of the story. And you take away from the baddy and then, and then the story’s over really. But you’ve got to be really scared.

Terry

And did you ever

Pat

Boy was I scared. Didn’t like those Cybermen. There was one moment where, I think it was in the Tomb of the Cybermen, or it might have been, might have been, oh I can’t remember, John would know, anyway there was this dormitory. It was a sort of hospital I think, and unbeknown to the Doctor and his companions the Cybermen had dissolved all the patients in the beds and they were all lying in these beds, you see. And at one hideous moment we were walking down the sort of corridor in between the beds and suddenly up came the sheet and this hideous Cyberman was there. And it was the most frightening moment for the kids. I remember them all being absolutely terrified. To scare even me mate. But I like, I liked the Yetis, they were very nice, nice and cuddly.

Terry

Do you think some of these were too scary for children?

Pat

No, I think that what matters is that you shouldn’t have familiar objects that turn into monsters. You mustn’t have puppets or dolls or even, I remember rightly a daffodil, a flower that turned into a creature that would strangle people and so on. I think that’s quite wrong, I think that scares kids. I think you know they look at their toys sideways you know if they’ve seen one of their doll or something come to life and be horrible. I think that’s a mistake. But I think generally speaking, as long as it’s fantasy, which it is, and costume, which it is and make believe you know, then its all right I think. And as long as, as the Doctor wins, and they know he’s going to win, and he always does of course, that’s all right. I think what’s wrong is, for children, is when you’ve got a modern play, in modern dress and that’s when that gets violent I think that’s a pity for kids because that’s real isn’t it instead of imaginary. I think the news is ghastly, that’s about the most horrific programme we have back home, the news.

Terry

You too

Pat

All the kids watch it too.

Terry

You also had a reputation for being quite a practical joker round the set.

Pat

Well we used to, we used to spill over a bit from the character yes at times, yes. Frazer and I got up to quite a few little pranks. Actually what we did mostly we played you know the card game aggravation, do you? We played that, Debby, I and Frazer.

Terry

Actually here its not a card game the aggravation that I’m familiar with is a board game

Pat

This a card game we play for sixpence. And we used to get down to playing that at 10.15 every morning. And when we were not on the set we used to play the whole day long this game, in order to sort of keep our morale up, you know. Because it was a very hard job, we were on every Saturday, not like this lot, now who do it sort of occasionally, you know. But it was weekly rep, we had two and a half days to do it and you were on. We had four weeks of the summer in August when we could go on holiday and relax and so on. But it was very hard work and its as a result it’s a bit difficult to remember, apart from the fact it was so long ago details of, of the various shows. And in the conventions half the time I’m asking the audience whether they know the answer to things. They seem to know more than I do. Cause you were like a squirrel on a wheel, and you just got your head down and did it.

Terry

Were there times when you just thought gee I’ve had enough with this and you wanted

Pat

Well half way through we had a problem because for the first year and a half we were doing working all the week and officially we were supposed to have our weekends off, Saturday and Sunday. But every other week, and sometimes every week there was filming, you know, around the countryside, which there was no other time to do. So we found that instead of having a weekend with your family and relaxing and so on we were working again. And this went on and on and after about a year and a half Frazer I and Debby, we got together, we had a little sit down strike. And we said thus far and no further, we’re not going to do this any more. We’re not going to do the filming at weekends, it’s not fair. So there was a great hiatus, you know. The planners all up in arms. But we were very lucky we had a lovely Head of Series, Head of Series, yes it’s a series isn’t it, in Sean Sutton and he was right on our side. And we got together and over a sort of working lunch we persuaded him, and he agreed, to tackle the planners. And to have our weekends free, but at the end of each story of say four or five weeks, episodes, there would be a week in which we would go away filming with the new director and cast and crew and get that all done before the next story started. But you see that meant that Doctor Who had to come off for one week because we were on directly we’d done the show you see. Although it wasn’t live it was you know tele-recorded and we were straight on. And that of course the planners simply, that was terror to them, because they sit up in their little offices with their little flags you see, their little red and blue flags on their little maps. And they’ve got patterns there which they like and if you alter that, they don’t like that at all. So it meant altering a flag, but we got them to alter a flag and we got our week off for our filming. So we were very grateful to Sean. And that was fine after that, we could relax at the weekends and see something of the kids, you know, and ones wife.

Terry

There was talk of another hiatus, I don’t know if its already been, been decided.

Pat

Another hiatus, what was that?

Terry

The break, the, is it eighteen months?

Pat

Oh you mean the recent one

Terry

Yeah right

Pat

No that’s not really a hiatus I don’t think, you see. After all I think that’s just a change of policy. John Nathan Turner will tell you more about this than I will. I think they, they, the powers that be preferred half hour shows to longer ones. I may be wrong but I think that was it and there was a sudden change of policy. But its nothing new you see. After we stopped doing them every Saturday of the year that chap Jon, Jon Pertwee, that’s it Jon Pertwee, he appeared on the scene, and of course once he appeared they said well we can’t have him all the time, you now, he’s just got to be on six months of the year, because that’s quite enough of him. So straight away there was a great hiatus there. But nobody minded that, and rather naturally I think really. Sorry Jon I don’t really mean it, you know that.

Terry

How are actors treated generally in England, I mean, apart from the squabbling that goes on?

Pat

What squabbling that goes on? What squabbling?

Terry

Well I mean you know over money as is the case everywhere.

Pat

Over money, squabbling, I , this is news to me. Don’t think actors in England squabble over money. No, no, no they, How are they treated by the audience you mean?

Terry

Well no, by their employers

Pat

By their employers. Oh well, it’s all regulated by our union, British Actors Equity, so you’re treated very well. ITV being commercial pays better than BBC, but that’s a question of, you know, how much the tax payer is prepared to pay on their license fee to the BBC really.

Terry

A similar problem with Public Television has here, handled differently

Pat

Yeah, yeah. It’s amazing to me. I mean this business of sponsoring BBC programmes is sponsored already by great huge firms in the States you know. There’s link ups in the money and in the budget and so on. So its already happening so why the fuss I just don’t know. However there we are, I mustn’t meddle in politics as I was told a little time ago.

Terry

Given unlimited time, unlimited resources, what would you be doing?

Pat

You mean if I was rich? Rich, you mean?

Terry

Yeah

Pat

If I was rich and rich. Well, I’d go on acting I think cause I love acting. I’d have. I wouldn’t act quite so much perhaps. I’d have more time on my hands. I’d have a lovely garden, a little garden I could work in. And a nice house of my choice, you know, in not too far in the country, but in the country somewhere. Somewhere which is surrounded by wild creatures. I love butterflies and animals and birds, that sort of thing. That’s what I would be doing. I don’t really want the sort of material things. Other than the things which enable you to enjoy the real things of life, like music, so you’ve got to have a radiogram and all that so on haven’t you. And the better they are the better the music is. That and a motor car which is a magic carpet that takes you to all these lovely places. But apart from that, I’m not really no, I’m very happy as long as I’m in lovely countryside. And that’s about it really.

Terry

Patrick Troughton it has been a delight chatting with you. Thank you very much.

Pat

How nice of you. Thank you very much indeed. Bless you. Bye bye.